Jacques Hopkins [00:00:00]:
If you've been sitting on a course idea and you're not sure how to package it into something people actually pay for, this episode is for you. You're listening to the online course show where we bring you the insights and strategies to build a thriving online course business. I'm Jac Hopkins, and over the past 13 years, I built a successful online course business teaching piano that's brought in over $5 million. And I'm here to share the lessons I've learned along the way. All right, today I'm talking with Stephanie Gaffney, a live wedding painter who built a premium program called the Wedding Painters blueprint. And in this episode, she's going to walk you through how she' structured it, how she priced it, and how she launched it. And she's been quite successful with it. Let's go ahead and jump in.
Jacques Hopkins [00:00:41]:
Hi, Stephanie. Welcome to the online course show.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:00:43]:
Hey, Jacques, how you doing?
Jacques Hopkins [00:00:45]:
I'm well. I hear you have a course. Tell me about your course.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:00:49]:
Yes, I have an online course. I'm an artist first and foremost, and people and more specifically, like, niche, a wedding painter. So I've been doing live wedding painting for 10 years. Ten plus years, been 600 weddings. And that's my job. I'm pretty good at it. And over the course of those years, people would DM or text or just ask me in person, like a question regarding what I do and would just answer. You know, I'm an open book.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:01:16]:
I would just give them an answer. And I recognize over time I was answering the same questions over and over again. And on top of that, I would, you know, it would be a question regarding portfolio or a question regarding the business aspect of it. And then I would want to tell them there's so much more that you need to know. It's, you know, this one question, great question, but it's that. Here's a quick answer. But there's so much more that I would want to tell you if you're going to go down this path, this business path as an artist. And so I kind of felt compelled to, like, put the information in a.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:01:51]:
In a format that a lot of people can access. I thought about hosting, like, live in person workshops or classes or having, even having like an apprentice. And I kid, the. The thought kept coming back, like, I need to be able to help more people around the world, like outside of just who lives in my city or who can come in person. And so this was in 2019 when I had the idea to create an online course. God bless. Amy Porter. Field and her digital course academy.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:02:26]:
I actually signed up for that in 2019 and that was around the time that I had my first child. And so I was like, okay, well I'll do this one day. There's this concept that I love of like having a one day shelf or creators like me to have these inspired project ideas. It's like, okay, I can't focus on that right now so I'm going to put it on the my one day shelf and do it one day. And so I did that with this online course idea and, and you know, I recovered from having that baby and I got inspired again and they got pregnant again and then it was Covid and thing I kept having to like take it down and put it back. And then in 2022 I, I was like, okay, I, I was pregnant with my third child and I was like, I really still want to do this. And I, I'm, I need to do this now because I want to run it now. I want to make it available now and I don't want to wait anymore.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:03:19]:
And so I actually created the course. I wrote all the scripts. It's a 12 week. It started as a 10 week, grew into a 12 week online course for live wedding painters and recorded over 50 videos, wrote the scripts for all the lessons, wrote all the assignments, all the assets, the support material. I created the entire thing in three months and then launched it. And even when I, and I was pregnant at the time and even when I launched it, there were still like support material that was being designed and curated and edited and kind of published at the same time. And we kind of launched it live. And I did hire professionals.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:03:56]:
I hired a videographer who helped edit the videos. I have an SEO manager who helped with like editing the documents and making sure it all went well. That's how it kind of came to be. And so this will be my fourth year launching the course. And every year we've had about 40 students join, which is great. And artists from all around the world in multiple countries. Egypt, Brazil, the Philippines, Canada, like it's been so much fun. A lot of international, I mean statewide artists as well.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:04:30]:
And we've the artists that the community is really awesome. I'm, I feel like I'm friends with the, the artists who have joined and gone through the course. I love seeing how successful they're becoming and, and watching them do it right, you know, watching them grow their business and, and have it streamlined at making really wise decisions and then just blossoming as artists and making a lot of money. That's that I'm, I'm very excited to see my students succeed that way. So the course is called the Wedding Painter's Print. I don't know if I mentioned that. I kind of, I'm very excited to be chatting about this with you because this, this behind the scenes side of it I don't get to talk about a lot. Usually I'm, I'm on the front end promoting the, of the course and on my podcast and so this is very exciting.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:05:22]:
So that's how the Wedding Painters blueprint came to be.
Jacques Hopkins [00:05:25]:
I love that so much because when I have, when I have creatives on the, on the podcast like yourself, I do get that feedback a lot because I, I also have like the nerdy geeky stuff like the, the SEO and the business related stuff and I love that too. But they talk about that the business side all the time. Whereas people like yourself teaching people, you know, in the art niche or, you know, people in the music niche, they're like, man, I kind of like every once in a while, you know, taking a peek behind the curtain and talking about the business side. And obviously I'm happy to do that with you. So there's a lot to unpack here with what you've, you've mentioned so far. You mentioned that the kind of genesis to the idea for you turning this into an online course was just all the questions that you kept getting and some and the same questions over and over again. Where were you getting those questions? Was it, was it out when you were actually doing the live wedding paintings, people would come up to you and ask the questions?
Stephanie Gaffney [00:06:19]:
People ask me questions while I'm working at a wedding all the time. And it does a lot of the same questions, but usually those questions are about, is this the only thing that you do? Is this you work for someone else? Do you work for the venue? Are you independent? How much do you charge? And then other. The questions that I was getting from their artists were mainly in DMS or emails. People who were reaching out personally kind of like secretly, hey, I've got this question. Can you help me with this? I'm thinking, I'm thinking about doing this or offering this service or I have my first wedding coming up. It was a friend who asked me to do their wedding and I don't know what to do. Help. I get a lot of people who will take a picture of their painting and even to this day they'll DM me a picture of the painting.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:07:10]:
Like, I can't get the face right. Help. So I've gotten a lot of requests just for guidance or advice or mentorship. I do offer coaching now, like formally, but at the, you know, over the past few years, it's just been like, would you mind helping me in this one way? Or how did you do this? What. What kind of easel? It could be as simple as what kind of easel did you use? Where did you get your light? If I post something on Instagram, it's like, where'd you get that light? Where'd you get that palette? And then sometimes it's more an in depth question, like, why did you switch from using acrylic paints to oil paints? I'm thinking about making the switch, but what. Why did you do? Why did you choose to do that? And so usually those kind of questions I'll like, use as content and then answer them in a longer format way on my podcast. But that's usually how I get the question is like a DM or an email. And it's usually a one or one off question that I oftentimes I, I know you have kids.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:08:09]:
I'll answer in a voice message. I'll like DM back a voice message in the car, because that's, that's when I can do it. So that's how I get them.
Jacques Hopkins [00:08:19]:
You signed up for Amy's course in 2019. Did you actually take the course then? Or it just kind of like scratched an itch that you had. Cause you mentioned you didn't really, didn't really create it until four years later. So did you take the course or, or did you set it aside?
Stephanie Gaffney [00:08:36]:
I kind of set it aside. I signed up and then joined all the Facebook group and like joined in and was gung ho to create the course. And then I guess got too far into the pregnancy or, you know, there was a point in time where I was like, okay, I can't. I, I participated in, in watching the videos and, and even I even mapped out. She's got this, this piece of advice in the course where she takes, like, post it when you're conceptualizing your course idea, any, any topic, any word, any, anything relating to this course idea, you write it on a post it, put it on the wall, and then you just kind of do a brain dump like that. And then you step back after a period of time and then you organize it and that's how you create basically your lessons, your modules, you, you kind of can structure the course, trim the fat, whatever. And so I had done that process so I knew what I wanted to create. And I knew I even had mapped out, like, a launch timeline on my calendar, like, when I would launch it.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:09:33]:
And then it came to the point of, like, okay, Christmas is around the corner, and it just, like, scheduling. I was like, okay, I can't do this right now. This. This is going to be a project that I don't have time for. And in 2019, I was right in the middle of my. My personal life, having a baby, of course, but, like, I was very busy with weddings. I think at that time, I was doing between 60 and 70 weddings a year and then doing commissions as well. I had just gotten married in 2018 and moved to New Orleans.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:10:03]:
And so, you know, my life was kind of rolling. And so taking on this new, very meaty project wasn't the right. It wasn't the right time. But I had purchased her course, and God bless her, she made it available kind of indefinitely. So, like, I still have access to the course now, of course, and that's how I structure my course, too. So it was a good idea. Um, so, you know, and then I had. I think I mentioned earlier that I.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:10:28]:
I had this baby, and then I have four kids now, and so I kept every. And they're all about two years apart. So, you know, you have the baby postpartum period, you get back to yourself, and then you start kind of like, okay, projects, projects. And. And so I, like, started and stopped this a couple of times, and then finally was like, I still want to put this out there. And if I'm going to put this out there, I need to just do it. I need to just, like, write the scripts, record, like, put it on the calendar, and tackle this project. All right.
Jacques Hopkins [00:10:57]:
So we had to stop it there for just a second for some technical difficulties. We're picking back up. Stephanie, you were. You'd mentioned, you know, moving to New Orleans, four kids now, and then you said, I stopped taking commissions for a few months, and this is my project. Right. You were talking about actually getting. Getting into creating the course, launching the course. So if you could roughly pick it up there and we'll go from there.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:11:20]:
Yeah, that's what I did. I took that project off the someday shelf. And I was like, this is the priority. We're getting this done because it has to be done before I have this baby. And so I did it, and I recorded. I don't know if. If we're. If I'm repeating myself, but the.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:11:36]:
I recorded, like, over 50 videos. I had a friend of mine who's a wedding videographer come and record in my house, I kind of set up this like backdrop and we recorded. It was so legit. It, I felt so. It was exhausting. It was a. We recorded for a week over 50 videos. I wrote the scripts myself.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:11:53]:
I wrote all the support material and did a lot of work, created it, launched it and then was still updating or adding in those, uploading the support material for the videos. And it was kind of still being created as we went through it and, and changes were being made and it was just, it was a lot of work and. But we launched it that year into the 2023 and have relaunched it with updates and a few, a few little changes. But primarily what we created is what exists today. And we've had about 40 new students join every year since. So I think we've got like 125is students who are, they're, they've gone through the course. They've had the opportunity to go through the course and complete it and move on with their lives. But I consider them course members because everybody is invited to join again every year for all the, for the new live mentor mentoring, live calls.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:12:56]:
Q. And as we do live critiques, we have live experts come and speak in their area of expertise because I am humble enough to know that I don't know everything about everything. So we, we have an expert in areas of the wedding industry, business marketing. We have an attorney, my husband is an attorney. So he's come in and we also have the legal page, Paige Griffith. So she's fabulous and very generous with her time. Yeah, it's just it, it's become this really incredible experience and a team member of mine in our marketing this year. She actually mentioned, she's like.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:13:38]:
Because she, she went through the course and now she, we've brought her on as the, the community manager because she understands the back end. She understands the, the tone of everything and how to help the students, how to offer assistance. But she mentioned it being a collegiate level course and I was like, oh yeah, that does sound good. So it's, it's become the dream like what I had dreamed about five years ago. And yeah, I'm very proud of it.
Jacques Hopkins [00:14:10]:
You mentioned something very briefly that I would love to touch on a little more. Mostly for the sake of, for, I guess this whole podcast is for the sake of the audience. I was going to say for the sake of the audience, but you mentioned have hiring a video editor come in and, and set up your, set up your shot and, and I think that is a very underrated strategy. And what I Mean is you, you mentioned a couple team members already. I, I, I outsource religiously. I've got people all over the world doing things for me. You know, full time people, part time people, one off project people. I outsource a lot.
Jacques Hopkins [00:14:42]:
But the one, one thing that's very hard to outsource to somebody remotely is coming into your setup and helping you set up your video shot. And I, I don't know, I guess you're probably the same Stephanie that, that was something I tried and was terrible at, was trying to get the lighting right and the shot right in the background and the blurriness. And eventually I was just fed up. And I hire, I paid a local videographer a hundred dollars. He was a hundred dollars an hour. He came in for one hour and about four or five years ago he set up everything for me one time and I haven't touched it since. Cause it, it works. It's great.
Jacques Hopkins [00:15:20]:
And it sounds like you did something similar too. And I think that people should do that more just like spend a little bit of money to get your, your setup done right from the beginning.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:15:30]:
Yes. Oh my gosh, yes. I'm an artist. I am not tech. I'm, I'm not tech intelligent. Like you asked me at the beginning, what kind of camera do you use? And I'm looking at a camera g going, going. It's a Sony something. No, I had, I wanted, I knew that I wanted what I created, what, what I was hoping people would purchase and then get like the most value.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:15:54]:
I wanted it to be nice. I wanted it to be clean. Wanted it to be like dang, she did. She like invested in making this really well done. And so the, the sound I knew wanted, I wanted it to be really crisp. I wanted, I didn't, I wanted it to feel really polished. The video side of it. I knew the information was good because it, it came from so many years of experience.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:16:22]:
I knew the messaging and, and the intention behind everything. The lessons, the, the, the specific level of detail I put into certain lessons. What I, the, the, the information, this, the anecdotes, the stories. I knew that was coming from a place of passion and, and commitment to the students and their experiences. I knew that was going to be expert level like pol, because that's, that was what I was putting into it. But what I didn't have control over was the video. So I did hire a videographer. Somebody who I knew, trusted and liked and knew they would be this particular videographer.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:17:00]:
His name is Andrew Benton. He is the, the genius Behind Elevation Films if anybody wants to check him out. Wedding videographer, somebody I had worked with many times in the industry and knew he knew how to edit video. I knew that he was technically obsessed, you know, very, very, very attentive to detail. And so I knew he would do a good job. And so when we recorded we set up a background for my face to camera, front facing camera instruction videos with the, a consistent background. And then I wanted him to be able to record me doing demos in the studio. I have mentioned to you I've struggled with the setup because it's not my strength.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:17:46]:
And I was like can somebody else just video me doing what I do best? And so that's, that's what I wanted to be able, I wanted to work with somebody for the course creation and, and it was worth it. I think I ended up paying him like 18 grand for all of the work that he did. And he and I, he and I were up until 5am Some Sunday mornings trying to get those modules edited, the mod, the module with all the videos for all the lessons approved, edited and then uploaded into Kajabi because I use kajabi to host. And he was up late like that first year getting those videos upload uploaded before they were supposed to go live to the students making changes. Like he worked, he went above and beyond. So it was worth every penny to hire him. And again for anyone who is creating, the audience who's creating, thinking about creating a course, there's different levels of of course and, and the, the price points and, and the sheer size of the course. The more introductory things is three videos, three lessons, fifty bucks, whatever.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:18:57]:
Well mine is more of a signature course. It's a 10 week now a 12 week experience. There's mentorship. Uh, so the price point is high. It is equivalent to the average cost to hire a wedding painter. So in my mind you're, you're, if you hire a, if you book a wedding, if you, the artist, the student book a wedding at the average cost and in the U. S it's about 2,600 bucks. So if that's my ticket price.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:19:20]:
Ish. And it's going up this year because you know, growth, mentorship, the time going, involved in it, the, the opportunity, it's just, it's growing and so the price should as well. We could talk more about that later but I wanted it to feel like you getting 10 years of my experience, you're getting ongoing mentorship. A community where you can ask questions and be vulnerable and receive advice, receive critique. I wanted it to be at least worth one booking. Right. But anyway, I wanted it to feel very polished, very well put together and I wanted them to feel like they got what they paid for and then some.
Jacques Hopkins [00:20:03]:
Obviously very smart pricing because in your marketing you can just say, hey, if you book one, you'll break even. Right? But what I want for you is to book 50 per year. You know, I want this to be a full time job for you. So worst case, when you book one, you break even. I love that. So the first, when you first launched, it was $2,600 at the price of the course?
Stephanie Gaffney [00:20:25]:
I think when I first launched it was 2497 because at that time a couple years ago, the average was 2500 bucks. Ish to hire a wedding painter. And in the course I talk about value and I talk about the importance of not selling yourself short and not offering this luxury service at such a discounted rate. Like offering a live painting experience for $500 is, it's really hurting the industry because our couples need to be educated on what the value of what it is that we offer. It's not just a painting. No matter how talented or experienced you are, it is live performance. It is, it's a high pressure job. It requires a lot of skill, a lot of expert decision making, very luxurious client experience, booking.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:21:17]:
You know what, having a contract, sticking to that contract, I don't know, it's just, it's a valuable experience having a live wedding painter at your event. And so I wanted to make sure everybody is on the same page with what that value should be. So we talk about that in the course.
Jacques Hopkins [00:21:34]:
Okay, so the main reason I was asking about the price is because you mentioned the first launch was 38 sales. So I mean nearly six figure launch that first time. How did the launch itself compare to your expectations going into it?
Stephanie Gaffney [00:21:49]:
I had my numbers for what I had invested in the course. I had, I worked on it for a number of months, three or four months total. And then so I knew what like my time was worth. And then I, I did outsource a number of things. Video recording, editing. And so Andrew's time. I have an SEO manager and then I did hire an script editor. So just kind of outsource like a contractor just to make sure that I was, because I'd never done this before, I wanted to make sure I was doing the very best that I could.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:22:25]:
So I, I had, I hired a lot of subcontractors and so that, and then I had two employees who were part time, who were working more than part time. So I wanted, I knew that I think I needed to make like 70 grand to break even. And, and that was just the, the subcontractor costs and then the investment in Kajabi, the investment in all of the, the subscriptions, the, the software that I needed to do all of this stuff. I needed to bump up my Zoom subscription. You know, just like all of the costs, I knew what I needed to break even. So in the end, after the close of the course, I think I broke even because my editor continued, the video editor continued to work for me. And then people were just working overtime to work through the course, make sure everything went streamlined. And so the first year, I just about broke even.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:23:20]:
And that was incredible because I built it, it was, it was ready to be launched again whenever I chose to do that. And I even kind of toyed with the idea of relaunching in the fall for people who couldn't, who, where the springtime wasn't the best time for them. And that's another thing that I've had to consider is when's the best time for my students and also me. And I couldn't just. With the commission season leading up to the holidays, I, I now have kids in school. Summertime is impossible and the fall. And then fall is kind of peak wedding season for most people. So it, yeah, it had to be in the spring.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:24:00]:
So anyway, first year I broke even. And then every year since then, I've have been able to, I guess, increase the profit margin. But there still is. And, and then we could talk about affiliates and discount offers and, you know, other like launch strategies, promotions, things like that. But that. I hope that answers the question about what I earned that first year.
Jacques Hopkins [00:24:26]:
Hey, it's Jacques jumping in real quick. If you're listening to this episode and you're thinking, okay, I have a skill. People ask me the same questions over and over. I know I could teach this. But your course still isn't built, or it's built, but you're not confident that you can sell it consistently. Well, that's exactly what my program Genesis Courses is for. Genesis is the program we use to help you turn your expertise into a clear offer, dial in your messaging, and build a course business that actually works in real life without needing to be everywhere online and without guessing your way through a launch. Because here's the truth.
Jacques Hopkins [00:24:58]:
The difference between I have a course idea and I have a course that sells is structure. It's a plan. It's a repeatable process. So if you're ready to Stop collecting ideas and start building momentum. Check out Genesis courses. You can learn more and get the details over at OC Show Genesis. All right, back to the conversation with Stephanie. Can I be honest with you? I mean, like, we.
Jacques Hopkins [00:25:17]:
We've known each other for an hour. We're pretty much best friends now, right? Yeah, it's. I'm. I'm never one. I'm not, like, questioning what you did, but I don't. That's probably the most I've heard somebody invest into their first. Right. Do you have any regrets around that? It doesn't sound like it.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:25:35]:
No. I am, you know, gotta be honest with you, on the. The front end, the public side, people can do math. They can do math. They can. They can look at what I'm selling the course for, and they can see what I'm saying, like, welcome the 38 new students. And they can do math. And there's this idea of, oh, she's just raking it in, or she's.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:26:01]:
The word. The term money hungry is, you know, a little extreme. But, like, you know, she's. All she cares about is profit. And that is. Yes, I created the course as another income stream, sure. But the amount of effort that goes into, like, going through the course, at the end of every course launch, at the close of every course for the past three years, I send out a survey to my students. And part of many of the questions are structured around do you think it was worth it? Were.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:26:30]:
Was there any hang up on the price or the payment plan option that you chose or whatever. And consistently, people are like, this is. It's worth. You should charge double. You should charge double. You know, like, and. And that idea is a little scary to me because of, you know, the word. The.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:26:47]:
I. I think that it's a big number already. It's a big investment, especially for the type of artist, where they're at in their journey, the beginner. They're not making $50,000 a year on wedding paintings yet. That's something they would like to do. And so the, the average student is starting from a place of I need to make the money, you know, like, lack of money. And so asking for that investment feels, you know, I feel. I feel a way about that.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:27:17]:
But I offer affiliate incentives. I pay 15% commission, and then on top of that, I offer my affiliates a 10% off coupon. So then, you know, the profit margin is kind of going down. And on average, data shows over the past three years, about half of my students come from affiliate links. So that's cutting into the profit margin, I send out a welcome packet that is valued at like $120, and that's not even including shipping per student. So $120 plus shipping times 40. You know, like the, the costs definitely go in and then my SEO manager works overtime to make sure as many.
Jacques Hopkins [00:27:59]:
Real quick, Stephanie, what the. The spirit behind my question? Just to make sure. I just want to make sure we're on the same page. Yeah, I wasn't questioning in any way the price of your course.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:28:07]:
I. I'm just getting.
Jacques Hopkins [00:28:09]:
Let's talk about how much you and you spent going into that first launch.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:28:13]:
Yeah, I don't regret it at all because it was able to create something that I can hang my hat on and, and refer back to. Like it's. It's good information. I update the course every year because the information, you know, get, I learn more and I want to share more everything that I learn. But I don't regret what I invested into it that first year. No.
Jacques Hopkins [00:28:36]:
Next question. The way you structure the launches and whatnot, I would say is a bit unconventional. It's certainly not unheard of. I feel like it's probably similar to how Amy Porterfield does her digital course academy, where she kind of launches it once a year. It's a several week program, but you still get lifetime access. So if you want to do it again the next year, you want to, you know, do it the nonline ver. Non live version. Did you structure it the way that you did because of Amy Porterfield, or is there some other motivation?
Stephanie Gaffney [00:29:07]:
That's such a good question, and I'm so glad to talk about it before I answer. Many people email asking for access to the course outside of the live launch. And for a while I was saying, no, I don't want to do that because then you're missing out on all the live mentoring aspects of it. But this year I actually did kind of beta test letting people in and they enjoyed it. And so, you know, we're looking at restructuring it to make it available evergreen. But the reason why I decided to record it the way that I did and structure it the way that I did, which is a live launch. We go through it together. I make many references in the videos, like, see you on Thursday for our live Q and A.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:29:51]:
It's because as I was writing the scripts and breaking down the lessons and the modules and the topics, I found myself just struggling to simplify enough. Each video is like 15 to 20 minutes long, and there are about 8 to 10 videos per module. It's, and that's just it. It, the information is like, it's meaty enough for them to take a lot of notes and, and make changes in their business, in their systems, whatever, but it just scratches the surface and there's so much individuality involved in running a creative business. Being an artist, I don't want, I didn't want artists to, I could not have possibly given the right advice or even scratch the surface on the information, going deeper in the information that I cover in the course if I would have restricted, restricted it just to video lessons or it would have been a, you know, a 36 month, it would have been a multiple semester course just because of the information. And then as an artist who is primarily me and then all of my students were like one person hiding in our studio or our spare bedroom in our house. It's a lonely environment, it's a lonely industry to be in. And most of us funnily enough choose to be with somebody who is like the yin tar yang, right? More left brained, more analytical and so leaning on our spouse or our partner to be a source of accountability or, or just conversation just to under, just to get it as not we don't really have that opportunity.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:31:39]:
And so having a community, having a space where, where people it's, you get it, you get this. The struggle of being an artist, doing commissioned work, finding this, this sweet spot between what you want to create as an artist and how you feel about it and then the client, what their expectations are and meeting in the middle, talking about money, talking about value. Like that has to happen the in person, I think. And so that's why I was like, no, it's got to be live there, there has to be a mentorship element to it. There has to be an element of critique like real time, post a photo, get feedback of your work. You know, oh, I, I, I worked a wedding and, and I made this mistake or I had this experience and it was traumatizing. What would you do? How would you handle that? How would you edit a clause in your contract moving forward so that, that mentoring ability, the community ability, that's why I decided to launch it the way that I did. And it puts a lot of work on me as the host because I have to be involved.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:32:51]:
Which is why Evergreen sounds very tempting and very desirable. But being more of an extroverted person at the end, at the close of the course, I'm vibrating with excitement for the students and how far they've come. I am offering one on one continued coaching because I want to keep it going. I'm, it's, it's very fulfilling for me to, to talk and to, to share and to go, you know, back and forth in a personal way. I'm, I'm not drained by it. I'm make it makes me more excited. So, you know, it works for me as well as a, as a teacher.
Jacques Hopkins [00:33:34]:
Makes sense. The, the way you set it up is, is a live launch and then it's a 12 week program and it sounds like there's a ton of support, there's a ton of live interaction and feedback. On the, on the other side of the spectrum would be a pre recorded online course where they sign up and once you make the sale there is nothing for you to do. It's all on them to go through it. Right. But like I said, it's a spectrum and there are places in between that it's not one side or the other. So just because you've got it set it up on an evergreen basis doesn't mean you can't provide support, doesn't mean you can't provide live calls, doesn't mean you can't provide feedback or someone in your team can't provide feedback. So it sounds, I mean you're shaking your head, it sounds like you are thinking of it that way, but I would, I would.
Jacques Hopkins [00:34:20]:
If you're not, I would encourage you to think of it that way and not, not just black or white and that there is, there is room along that spectrum with piano in 21 days. We, we offer support, we offer feedback. Even though it's very much an evergreen course. Just as an example.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:34:33]:
Yes, that's, that's something that I'm aware of and, and I, I understand. Another reason why I wanted to close the course was because of my personal schedule, my calendar. Let's say we welcome a student in the course in August and as they're going through like the business modules, they have a ton of questions and I am right at the height of accepting commissions and you know, the kids are going back to school, whatever and I can't and they, and they start submitting like support questions or they, they really require some, some one on one guidance and I'm unable to give it to them and that's just one student, let's say a bunch of students jump on. It was the, the I guess fear of not being able to provide support consistently coming from me now since then I have a VA who provides support as well. I have other people in, on the team who understand the live painting aspect of it. The business aspect of it and can support me in supporting those students. So that's why I'm more encouraged now to like, okay, I think we can make this work to, to make it. To push it Evergreen.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:35:45]:
It's just gonna require a commitment to. Like I said, there are many mentions in the course to the live aspect, to the, the ongoing small groups and accountability groups. And, and so I'd like to restructure it to make it an offer that, that just kind of ties a bow around it being a DIY kind of course.
Jacques Hopkins [00:36:07]:
Right now. Are you preparing for another spring 2026 launch? Is that the plan? And then maybe experiment with some Evergreen stuff after that?
Stephanie Gaffney [00:36:16]:
Yeah, that's the plan and that. And we're excited about it all of the. As we go through the course, any updates can be either recorded or created in a PDF and uploaded as well as, you know, new information coming in the live calls. But we're, we're about to open the cart in February, so we're right around the corner. January is just flying by. It's not fair. Uh, and then in, in the summer. Excuse me.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:36:41]:
In the summer we're going to sit down and, and make some edits and then re. Record new lessons, new scripts and we're taking on that project then and I'm very excited about it.
Jacques Hopkins [00:36:53]:
Well, the. So you're preparing for a launch right now. So we haven't really talked about like how you launch. Right. You've, you've done I guess three so far. This will be your fourth and they've been, you know, right at. Right at six figures each, it sounds like. So they've been pretty successful each.
Jacques Hopkins [00:37:10]:
What is your launch process? What, like what is this one going to look like in terms of the emails you send, the events you do, the promotions you're doing? What does it look like?
Stephanie Gaffney [00:37:19]:
One thing that I, that Amy Porterfield has recommended, her path is to host a live webinar. And that's not something that I have had time to prepare for and promote and in the past. This year we're, we're actually going to be doing that and I'm very nervous. I don't know why. I have a podcast myself. I'm, I speak to people and coaching in live environments all the time. I should be able to do it. But you know, when you do something for the first time, it's like it could go wrong.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:37:47]:
But anyway, we're doing it. I'm excited to do something for the first time and so that we're adding that to try to generate more leads and to get new audience members, new people interested in learning more about becoming a live wedding painter. We have other free content on the website that, that's available for, for download and that's a strategy that we've used over the past few years of collecting emails to market to. And we have a, a cart open period of like 10 days in February. And that's a strategy for, you know, scarcity. Like sign. This is. There's a short period to sign up.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:38:25]:
So that's the, the mindset that we try to get into and then just like give information. We, we invite people to call and ask questions, email with questions. I do. I have recorded like a, a sneak peek behind the scenes, kind of walking the viewer through the, the library and seeing all of the resources available and how the modules are structured. And I offer that to anybody interested and then we close the card and then uh. Oh, and then the next week is Mardi Gras, just based on this year's schedule. And then after Mardi Gras, we, we have like an intro week where we do a critique demonstration to let people know what they can expect from the critiques, to introduce everybody. It's a live call, open the floor for questions and then offer, also offer one on one coaching just to get like a quick win because everybody's at a different place on their journey.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:39:23]:
And having been on this journey for 10 years, I can kind of say, okay, here's where you're at. Here's what you can do right now to, to, to get some momentum and then we can jump in after that. That's, that's kind of the process. And we send emails to everyone on the existing list and start posting on social media soon.
Jacques Hopkins [00:39:44]:
This is going to be episode 270something. I've been doing this since 2017. I think this is the first time Mardi Gras has come up.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:39:51]:
Oh yeah, yeah.
Jacques Hopkins [00:39:53]:
I mean the people are listening all over the world. We have this little, this little holiday here in South Louisiana called Mardi Gras, where it's wild and there's King Cakes and there's parades and it's a lot of fun. And that's what she meant by Mardi Gras.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:40:04]:
Yeah, that's a, that's definitely a Louisiana and Mississippi thing. And technically it's the Tuesday before Ash Wednesday, so we're kicking it off the Lent season with a big party and a bunch of parades. And then we, it's like the whole. As soon as the new year hits, everybody puts their Christmas trees away and Then they start selling king cakes and preparing for the parade schedules and it's, it's definitely a two month long holiday for, for the Southerners, Louisiana and South.
Jacques Hopkins [00:40:33]:
Cakes have you had so far this year?
Stephanie Gaffney [00:40:35]:
How many king cakes? I've bought two. I've bought two for classrooms and you know, whatnot. But there is usually one on the counter. Always very nice.
Jacques Hopkins [00:40:47]:
Yes. During this season for sure. Okay, so you've mentioned Kajabi a couple of times. Why did you decide to go with Kajabi?
Stephanie Gaffney [00:40:55]:
Primarily because that is what was recommended in digital course Academy and there I did look at a couple of other ones but at the time it was, it seemed very user friendly and now they've made updates to where you can facilitate purchases. You know, it's, they offer e commerce as well. It's very expensive, but the course is, is everything is set up there. So that's another thing. It's like $200 a month. That's a subscription that I, I pay for not only during the, the live launch but, but throughout the year to keep everything live. So that's a one of the many costs that go into hosting a course that people may not think about. And I can move if I need to, but I like it.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:41:41]:
It's. The support has been really good for me. Some people may have different experiences, but I appreciate Kajabi support. So when I have a question or if there's an issue with the dripping modules or payment scheduling or whatever, the support has been pretty, pretty speedy.
Jacques Hopkins [00:42:00]:
Or your community, are you using the community feature in Kajabi as well?
Stephanie Gaffney [00:42:05]:
The community I'm using, I'm on Facebook and Facebook's been working. It's relatively small compared to other courses that are more worldwide or serve a larger audience because it's. The wedding painting world is still very niche. Facebook has been working well as a community platform.
Jacques Hopkins [00:42:28]:
So we mentioned Kajabi. What other tools, if any are you using to facilitate your course business that you like?
Stephanie Gaffney [00:42:35]:
Okay, I like Ad Event for the course calendar. We're gonna, I think we're gonna explore with Google Google Calendar this year. But that is, I'm leaning heavily on my, one of my managers for that. Just by recommendation, Ad Event was looking a little pricey. We use flodesk for email marketing. I, I started with flodesk when they created it. I was as like a beta tester and I have enjoyed it ever since. So we do a lot of our email marketing through flodesk.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:43:05]:
Let's see. Email marketing, Kajabi, Zoom. We use Zoom for our Live calls. We've tried other. Zoom is just great. It's easy. And again, it's still small. The group is still small enough to, to serve with whatever level of investment we have with Zoom right now.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:43:27]:
In fact, I think we may be bumping it up to like 300 members live for the live webinar. But we're gonna, we're gonna look at that.
Jacques Hopkins [00:43:37]:
You obviously have a lot going on. The live paintings themselves is. Maybe that's an understatement. The live paintings, the commission paintings, the course, family life, like, how do you balance it all?
Stephanie Gaffney [00:43:50]:
I have a lot of help. I do have a lot of help and I do not. It's a lot. I think it's, it's a lot right now because I have a baby. I have like a three month old, three and a half month old. But we have help with the kids. The kids are in school or a daycare. I'm, I'm nursing and so I have a sitter here so that I can, the baby can be here, which is great.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:44:15]:
I say here, miss my home. I work out of my home and so I'm able to do mom things, cook dinner and keep up with laundry and stuff. I have been traveling for live wedding paintings for the past few years, traveling out of the state and out of the country. And this year and last year, I actually have been reining it in and kind of capping how many times I travel per month or per year. So that's been an adjustment because I really love the job, but also a necessity just with the, the size of the family and everything that they need. I launched, like I said, I'm able to pour it. The, the course is a priority between January and May and then I can close right now, I can close the, the door on that project and then have summer and then dive into commissions. And so I, I think of the year when you juggle a lot of avenues of your, of business or whatever.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:45:10]:
I think about, I think about it in terms of projects, quarters I look forward to into the year and say I'm not going to do this now because I know I'll do this. You know, August through November, I'm, I add and take things away off my plate. I'm actually going to pause the podcast during the summer so that, and then relaunch it in like season two so that, that's something upcoming commissions I people, you know, when you offer portraits or custom artwork, people email all the time, they're submitting inquiry forms all the time. And it's like Please join the wait list. Commissions are closed right now. Whatever. So balance is, I think it's important to. If you're, if you picture the analogy of like, spinning plates, I think it's important to put a few plates down.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:46:00]:
And that's something that people don't talk about. They're like, oh, I'm very busy. I'm juggling all these things. But in order to actually nurture the things in your life that are the highest priority, you have to put some things down or else they will fall down. And I've experienced that many times. So I think finding balance is making the right decision every day of, like, what to prioritize and what to put down. And that changes day to day.
Jacques Hopkins [00:46:31]:
That's going to be, I think, a good segue to likely. My final question. I'm going to go a little deep on you here. You have a lot going on. You added the course stuff is one of the more recent things. It sounds like if you never did that, it sounds like you still have a pretty good life, still be making an impact on other people, still have a lot of fulfillment, doing okay financially, I'd imagine. So ultimately, like, what do you, you know, why do you, why do you still do the course thing? What do you love about having the course business and be able to share that with other people?
Stephanie Gaffney [00:47:13]:
Honestly, it is a good stream of income. So when I think about what I'm going to put down, I don't have to do commissions. I can shift my energy to teaching and motivating and inspiring and, and providing encouragement for other artists. I love helping people. I have, I was a, A co. I used to swim competitively, and then I was a coach. And so coaching comes naturally to me. And so, and, and, and so it, it is easy in a way because it's, it's fulfilling.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:47:44]:
It's kind of filling a cup when it comes to my personality and what I enjoy doing. And I feel like it's making a difference in people's lives. Those people who choose to invest in the course and learn from me based on feedback and based on just a quick feedback, like if I'm face to face with somebody on a coaching call and I can see gears start to turn and, and, you know, I could see the light bulb go off. I'm like, okay, they, they get this part now they can go and do and, and, you know, make a change in their life, that for the better or whatever. That's, that's fun for me. And it's, it is nice to have a, this stream of income. But it is also I would, it's like painting. I would do it for free if money didn't matter and I didn't have to pay bills.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:48:37]:
This is something that would be a no brainer. And if I closed the course, I would find a way to still offer coaching or you know, offer in person workshops or you know, whatever. I would, it would still weasel its way back into my life. This, this concept of helping people.
Jacques Hopkins [00:48:59]:
If someone wants to get more information about you and what you offer, whether it's listening to your podcast, you know, booking you for their wedding commission, painting, or of course the online course or whatever else you have going on. Where, where can someone connect with you online?
Stephanie Gaffney [00:49:16]:
Okay, I want everybody to grab a pen. My if you want to see my work as an, as a wedding painter and an artist. Tora grossafineart.com is the website. Tor Gross is spelled T O R R E G R O S S A. It's my maiden name and when I am dead and gone, everybody will know it'll be a household name like Picasso. Torresafineart on Instagram or.com is the website that is where you can hire me to do a commission work or hire me to paint at your wedding. If you're interested in. In coaching or to learn more about my online course.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:49:51]:
Stephanie Gaffney S T E P H A N I e G A F-F-N-E-Y.com that is the website where you can learn more about me as an educator and then the podcast also. You can listen to episodes of the podcast on stephaniegaffney.com or you can listen on YouTube, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. My podcast is the composed artist and it's been a lot of fun. That's been a really fun project. And Jacques, you do enjoy your podcast, obviously. It's over 200 episodes. Been doing it for years. We came up on a Year of the podcast in September and there are solo episodes, artist advice and education for artists.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:50:36]:
But then there's interviews. It's been a lot of fun. So you could check out the podcast on those platforms.
Jacques Hopkins [00:50:43]:
Stephanie, it's been an absolute pleasure. It's been great to get to know you. Thank you for sharing everything and thanks for being here and happy Mardi Gras.
Stephanie Gaffney [00:50:51]:
Yeah, happy Mardi Gras. Thank you so much for sharing your platform with me and for inviting me on. This has been fun. Ja.
Jacques Hopkins [00:50:57]:
My pleasure. All right, that is a wrap on my conversation with Stephanie. The show notes for today's episode. You can find at OC Show 275. And remember, the call to action for this episode is Genesis Courses, my coaching program for beginners. If you're ready to build your course with a real plan and start moving from idea to execution, you'll find all those details at OC Show Genesis. Thanks again for listening. And don't forget to take action on what you heard here today.
Jacques Hopkins [00:51:25]:
I'm rooting for you.
